Debut of Canadian Lumberjacks @ Epcot

I'm not sure, but they are still listed under Epcot entertainment on Disney's website as of this morning.

Well it looks awful. We won't be watching it .. I wasn't a fan of off kilter, and 'm really glad they are gone...... Here comes the hate........ These lumberjacks chainsaws are at least easier on the ears.

With all due respect, The Colonel... it is "Jammitors", not "Jamminators."
Here is some additional clarification about the entertainment situation at EPCOT:
The groups that were let go were all long time Disney employees, not independent contractors. They, like all employees, worked, more or less, at the pleasure of the company. They do/did not work under an employment contract (although for actors this point is somewhat different). For the musicians, they are represented by a collective bargaining agreement from the musicians union, but, that doesn't protect one's job in the event of a corporate-lead concept revamping of the type we just saw. All of the groups let go had been at EPCOT for well over a decade and a half, iirc, and their being let go was a shock to them and their professional lives and certainly their famlies. AFA the Jammitors in particular, they are not an independent contractor but employees of Disney too, so there is no "contract extension" to speak of. Are they "working for peanuts?" Well, as dictated by the union, they earn EXACTLY the same pay-rate as all other Disney musicians, including the ones who were let go. So, the guitar player from Off Kilter made the same wage as a Jammitor, or the violin player from Mo Rockin, or a trumpet player at the Magic Kingdom. While the Jammitors equipment costs may seem low, they are not, really. They have multiple show concepts that must be kept ready to go at most times. They go through equipment at a relatively fast rate, although a trash can is cheaper than a guitar, if you go through 100 cans a year vs 1 guitar every few years, you can see the Jammitors are not really a "bargain" or a "cheap" group by comparison... just different. The Jammitors have NEVER been on the ropes or "all but done" in any sense of the word. As is ALWAYS the case with Disney entertainment, a concept change could happen tomorrow or it may not happen for another 20 years. It will likely happen someday, but, after nearly 20 years there is ZERO evidence to suggest the Jammitors are at any greater risk than normal. To suggest such is wholly incorrect and somewhat irresponsible without specific information.

That is so good to hear! I love them.... having grown up in a choir family.... they seriously bring tears to my eyes just listening to their harmonies... absolutely beautiful.

I had to google the Jammitors - I have never seen them before. We usually spend most of our time in Epcot walking the WS. Will definitely have to wonder into innoventions east in January.

I believe in the early aughts, they may have been called the Jamminators. At any rate that is what I came to know them by, whether they were chefs, gardeners or janitors.

And I should have mentioned that I read they were all but gone on another forum. You know, one of the forums where the obsessed pour over Disney permits and patent and trademark filings, trying to figure out the Mouse's next move. I am delighted that they are still around. I enjoy them very much.

I am presenting my own conjecture here as I have no direct knowledge of what goes on other than what I experience in the parks or read about. So I really don't feel irresponsible. I don't think my forum postings carry that much weight.

But I stick by my theory, that Disney plans to reduce the cost and quality of Epcot entertainment. And they can reduce the cost by switching over to contract entertainers rather than employee entertainers. The better quality offerings will be at night and you will have to pay extra for them.

Of course I could be completely wrong about that. It's just my gut feeling.

I have a few questions for you Underground Disney since you appear to be quite knowledgeable about these matters. In fact, I would guess you're very close to this situation. Are the performers paid more based on tenure or length of employment? Even unskilled laborers are compensated based on their length of employment under a union contract. Also are different positions compensated differently? For instance, is a stage performer paid better than a strolling performer, etc? And are there any provisions for a pension for these employees?

They have always been then Jammitors - since the beginning, even regardless of the seasonal variations on their shows.

There has beena move in that direction, or at least it certainly feels like that. Without hard numbers or direct info, I can only agree in principle here.

When it comes to musicians, every musician makes the same hourly rate regardless of length of tenure. The newest member, makes the same as the oldest members. In the case of musicians, there is no difference in pay. I have played at stages and on the street and in parades. The money is identical. The only time a musician makes more than another is when one is in the leadership position within the group. In every group there is one designated leader. There is a relatively generous pension run by the Musicians Union, not WDW. For full time Disney musicians, they enjoy the same benefits as other full time employees. It was/is a known phenomenon for musicians to be making more money than most of the lower level managers they interact with.
There is one (former) exception to the rule about musician pay. When there was a seasonal college program, those "kids" were paid a fraction of what the professional musicians earn and they were not covered under the unions collective bargaining agreement.

After the campaign to get The Adventurers Club reopened failed, I just feel like these decisions are final, and Disney execs never admit to making a mistake. It really left a bad taste in my mouth that there was such a clamoring for an attraction, and they were completely indifferent.

In your opinion, is there any hope of getting Off Kilter back?

Well, we were at Epcot end of October and watched some of the show before moving off as it was hokey, uninteresting, and not even close to the quality of the previous band that played at that spot. This did not look like something Disney would put in front of their Mickey Heads (I mean customers). I was very disappointed and this will be one area we just walk by in the future.

What were they thinking!!!????

I think they call that "penny wise and dollar foolish."

Yes, I hope this doesn't become a trend. We have been DVC members since 2006 (Saratoga Springs) and have never regretted our investment. We frequently take friends and family with us, so we have had to add points a couple times to be able to handle the bigger rooms (and more points) required to accommodate our larger groups. We love the entertainers we run into when poking around the parks. That is what makes park poking fun - you never know what new "thing" you might run into. It is disturbing to see some of our favorite entertainers disappearing. Like what happened to the vine lady at the AK? Another hit to the bottom line? We like to see new attractions added to the parks - like the upcoming Avatar Land and we know it is expensive to create areas like that. But that is why we spend our money to make the long trip (1,100 miles for us) at least twice a year to utilize our DVC membership, and it is why we buy annual park hopper passes every year, and why we spend big bucks on Disney branded clothes/trinkets/pins (all made in China) because it is fun to get away from the everyday grind, act like a kid again, go someplace that is always clean and is run by friendly people who make you feel special, yada..yada.. We spend a lot of money on our Mickey vice and you multiply that by the millions of others who go down and spend their cash and it seems like you can still have a good bottom line while still providing the services/acts/experiences that we, the customer, have come to expect over the years.

Walt would be having a fit if he were still around to see what the corporate gurus are doing to his dream in order to make the most profits for the corporation at the expense of the masses who adore Mickey and his gang. How far will it go before people decide it is not worth it any more? I hope that doesn't happen as I still have 42 years left on my DVC membership and we REALLY like making the trip down South to hang out with all the gang down there.

We like the Boardwalk and Beach Club best because it is walking distance to Epcot and HS, but at the time we bought into DVC, there weren't any points available in those places. We try to get rooms at the 7-month window, but many times they are all booked. We love Bay Lake Tower - especially the grand villas over there. But at least we always have a place to stay at our 11-month window and the rooms at SP are nice - it is just a pain to catch a bus ride to all the parks from there. Hopefully all the changes gong on at DT Disney will make SP more attractive.

Our next trip is already booked: Feb 28-Mar 7 at the Boardwalk (yay!). We did wrangle a 1-bedroom unit and our married daughter and her husband are joining us. We figure to get a few days of the Flower/Garden show in before the Spring break crowd invades the parks the weekend we go home.

Here is my opinion as someone who never saw Off Kilter nor have I ever seen a lumberjack show.

I saw the show last month. I saw it with an open mind. I didn't think it was bad. There were some corny jokes. The emcee tried to get the audience involved by dividing us up to cheer for the blue team or the red team depending on where we were sitting or standing. I was on the red team. I liked that they planted three trees for every one they cut down and that the left over logs were "recycled" to use as mulch around WDW.

Was it the best show ever and will be a must do on future trips or they won't be complete? No

Will I stop and watch it again if I happen to be walking by before a show starts and want to sit down for a few minutes? Yes

If you haven't seen it, give it a chance.

DiVine is still there. She only makes appearances throughout the park at certain times during the day.

We were just there and the area where she came out was all boarded up. I remember seeing a post on one of the Disney blogs that said Disney was dropping this amazing attraction. Probably another crappy cost saving idea. I really hope that isn't true.

Devine was there three weeks ago. Now for the lumber jacks..... I hated of kilter, it's not my thing it's not aimed at me I don't like that kind of music.. Too me they are like mulch sweat and shears too loud and too out dated,... But the lumber jacks oh boy were they bad... Really bad. We couldn't bare to watch the whole show, I don't wanna see guys with power tools in disney.